Active discussions include public authorities and politicians. On Monday, members of the five factions Seimas appealed to the Attorney General for threats and defamation, activists fighting for children's rights, Dovile Shakalien, which appeared on social networks after threatening. Confrontation threatens, and the legislator agrees that the law must be amended. Rimantas Dagys, Member of the Committee on Social and Labor Affairs, and Mykolas Majauskas, Member of the Commission on Suicide and Violence Prevention, is discussing this in the matter of "Today's Topics" with Vladimir Lauzy.
– You both represent the same party, Persatuan NKRI, which your chairman calls "the People's Party". But people today, as we see, split up in the family history of children, and maybe this division divides your party too?
M.Majauskas: I don't think it's broken. It seems to me that we all agree that we must maintain the welfare of the children and ensure that children are not beaten, protected, and all agree that the best environment for the growth of children is in the family.
R.Dagys: We must decide in principle. The biggest disagreement is [dėl to]how we understand the welfare of children. One approach that most of us, who are currently active as speakers, represent us that we trust families like that, this is the basis of our society. With that eye you need to see the whole law. All government interference is extraordinary. Another approach is that officials know better how to handle and give us the right to trust to raise children.
– Is this the attitude of M.Majauskas here?
R.Dagys: I don't know, but maybe he will be better for himself.
M.Majauskas: It seems that I have to see reality. In Lithuania around 50% of families still use physical punishment as a means to be raised at home. Studies show that there are various reasons. One of the main things is that grandparents have been educated so that parents have been trained, and now the children themselves educate their children so much because they don't know how to educate otherwise. This requires the development of positive parenting.
In Lithuania around 50% of families still use physical punishment as a means to be raised at home.
Some parents are tired, frustrated, family problems, financial problems. This emotional problem is impatient for children, so look for quick decisions about how to convince children, to raise children. Sometimes physical punishment can appear in a short time. Still alcoholism, poverty. It seems to me that if we don't solve this problem, we will not provide family support, we will continue to work only with consequences, we will treat the symptoms, but we will not ensure that violence from Lithuania is truly violated.
R.Dagys: At present, we do not argue that the application of physical punishment in the family is a method of poor parenting – there is nothing that can be debated about this. Controversy is because the concept, as it is now, as it has now been implemented, has become a tool for violence against all families. All families become suspects, and all families are afraid. Regarding the subjective formulation – my colleague was present on time. Our officials can handle them very easily. Extensive violent behavior makes them dangerous. Because, as we would expect, by adopting laws that have reasonable criteria to be fulfilled, they don't work, but we now have a situation like that.
M.Majauskas: Well, it's possible to write perfect laws, but if they are used crazy, praising the Nazis, to judge serious crime, we will continue to see the big mistakes we see in Kaunas. It seems to me, I certainly would not write here the law is crazy, but we must ensure that the rights of the people who work with our children, the rights protection specialists of children, whose average salary today is 740 euros, that is, work, damn, dangerous and difficult, salary will be one and a half times twice the average wage in Lithuania. And we will have serious specialists who will work with our family.
Julius Kalinskas / photo 15min / Michael Majauskas
– But the teacher goes to university, pays a small salary, is somehow called.
M.Majauskas: I can explain why. The work of specialists in the protection of children's rights is ungrateful, dangerous, and the decision of the nobility is always guilty. Today, if we want professionals who are serious about working, we must provide social security, we must provide training, we must ensure that remuneration is like motivating a serious specialist, not only knowing the law, but also having the human ability to work with family.
– Pre-trial violence against children in the family lasts months, months or months of trial or hearing. Again, as long as the child is separated from the family, the child is closed either in the nursing home or with the guardian. Should there be shorter deadlines for pre-trial investigations and other processes?
R.Dagys: Not only this one. Both the terms and the trial must be open, with all parties involved, and not only in correspondence. But one thing we need to understand when we talk about punishment for beating is a minor offense, but the procedure to dislodge a child is disproportionate. This is a much greater trauma to children. This is something that is truly unacceptable, only in exceptional cases. This is our parents and fear. Now this law has made all family suspects.
One thing we need to understand when we talk about punishment for revoking is a violation, but the procedure for child deprivation is disproportionate. This is a much greater trauma to children. This is something that is truly unacceptable, only in exceptional cases. This is our parents and fear.
– Pre-trial investigations are applied in general procedures, children have been separated all the time, court sessions, general procedures, psychiatric examinations, also stand in queues, and expected months.
M.Majauskas: In my opinion, this does not take place for bureaucratic procedures, but because of the lack of full family support on time. The child is taken by a court decision, but by the decision of a specialist the protection of children's rights can be returned to the family very quickly if there is a possibility, but there is no positive parent education, which has to wait 3 months, no alcohol treatment in the area need to wait 3 months. There is no emotional help for parents, psychotherapists to write to the polyclinic, if difficult, and thus solve problems. Until completed, children are not returned. Not because of a long procedure, children are not returned. They may be paid in advance, but there is no guarantee of family service that will create the prerequisites and conditions for returning to the child.
R.Dagys: I came here after 3 hours of discussion, where both specialists and everyone took part, and the answer was clear about this: the procedure was too long. And that can be extended indefinitely. This is the weakness of our law. Again, the precautionary criteria do not work in court or elsewhere.
– Will you change the law?
R.Dagys: The law needs to be established to explain to everyone what is written there, because no one acts on the criteria of fairness.
– Do you promise as a representative from Homeland Union or just as a party?
R.Dagys: I am a representative of the Subcommittee on Family and Child Welfare, to whom it is entrusted. We agree today that as soon as all amendments are implemented, it will be discussed with all non-governmental organizations and in a short time will see the light of day on the Sejm.
– Violence against children is not limited to families. Violence is not only parents but also children themselves. You can commit violence against his siblings, in preschool institutions children do violence to one another in schools. Do we now have a brother to take a brother from his brother according to this logic? A child from a pre-school education institution, from school?
M.Majauskas: In my opinion, we are a rather frightening family, we scare children, that now children will be taken away – children will be taken away, parents must protect children. Last year, children were taken and given to caregivers from October to July more than this year from July to October. No need to take children. The second is, of course, we must ensure full family support. It is not enough for children to grow up in a stable emotional environment where there is no violence where they do not see violence against them. Then they will not perish before a weaker child, because it comes from family traditions and culture from generation to generation. Only in this way will we change it.
R.Dagys: There is a certain division of views here. In addition to this, I will also mention the institution's own violence against children, because child deprivation is actually a form of violence that we apply in extreme cases. But, in principle, I don't like the fact that we are ourselves, Lithuanians, and the Lithuanian family are very cruel. There are many examples of the world, but we must use policy criteria to understand that our families have experienced and tolerated all such historical experiments, I think, need to be seen by respecting their practices and only correcting what they need and not taking everything from other countries have a different historical experience. I think our family deserves more respect than our neighbors.
Julius Kalinskas / photo 15min / Ramantas Dagys
M.Majauskas: No one disagrees about respecting the family, for those who really experience difficult things. But we must talk not only about compassion and respect, but also about helping this family get better. Teaching to educate children in other ways and provide emotional support to those who have difficulty talking about alcoholism and poverty.
– Why do we overcome the problem of family deprivation when parents commit violence, but do not apply the same principles when children abuse each other? And then we have to separate them from each other, according to this logic.
M.Majauskas: In my opinion, we need to provide family support so that violence is not violent so we do not see violence among children. That's the solution. I don't think we should pick up children, and bringing children out of the family is never a solution – it is a trauma for children and family, and if a child is taken, only on condition that he is returned as soon as possible.
– Mr. Majauskas, you are one of the initiators of a system to protect children's rights, which is now operational.
M.Majauskas: I am the initiator of the Child Not Act, which is clearly stated, so that children cannot be beaten. It seems like I can't go back there. As Lithuanians, we, as Lithuanians, can bring beautiful, gentle, happy children without destroying them.
– The Constitution for the Protection of the Rights of the Child does not apply. Do you agree that you need to change it?
M.Majauskas: Certain parts can change, there are rational suggestions. It seems to me that Pak R. Dagys has named the road here. But the amendment to the law will not resolve the situation substantially. The problem is family support, which currently does not exist.
R.Dagys: In this case, we really have obtained the essence of law and, in particular, the prism of respecting the family. And the prism of family support. Then all systems of assistance will come when we respect them. After all, we all understand it – there will be violence. Violence has always been something of a kind. People will come and our children on the streets, and in other places. We will not prevent them from seeing it. We need to educate them to understand what is happening, to help them, and to help families know the current situation.